Solo Media Forums:View topic - A Few Good Palms

A Few Good Palms

User: Jeff Kirvin Site Admin
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:40 am
One of my favorite movie moments is the big courtroom showdown at the end of \"A Few Good Men.\" Not the oft-quoted \"You can't handle the truth!\" as much as a quieter moment just before that, where Jessup falls into Caffee's trap. After laying the groundwork, Caffee says, \"Just one more question. If you gave an order that Santiago wasn't to be touched, and your orders are always followed, then why would Santiago have been in danger? Why would it be necessary to transfer him off the base?\"

The mood of the courtroom, the look on Nicholson's face, told the story. Without another word, you knew Caffee had won. The rest was just drama. Jessup was caught in a contradiction, a logical trap he couldn't escape.

I've been talking a lot about Tablet PCs recently, PDA-sized handheld computers running Windows Vista (the OS formerly codenamed Longhorn). Why have I been touting the successor to Windows XP when talking about PDAs?

In my editorial \"The Once and Future Palm,\" I made the case that Palm was just fine sticking with Garnet, that they didn't need Cobalt and they didn't need PalmSource. I caught a lot of flak for that. People disagreed with my premise that Garnet was \"good enough\" for what Palm needs to do with their devices. They wanted new technology, not moldy old Palm OS 5. The wanted to \"advance the platform,\" though they were vague about where exactly it should advance.

I've gone to great lengths recently to point out how Windows Vista can scale down to a PDA-like device. While battery technology itself isn't likely to improve much, next-generation Centrinos will get more energy efficient, OLED screens will mature, hard Drives with flash-based cache will become common. Vista's new Avalon display engine makes it much easier for developers to write applications that gracefully scale up and down to different screen sizes. By 2008, you'll be able to buy a device roughly the size, weight, price and battery life of the current HP hx4705 that can run all the same apps you use on your desktop and automatically keep your data in sync over WiFi.

Once I'd established this, backed up my assertions with proof from Microsoft, I saw a common comment begin to surface. A lot of people didn't see the point. We're still talking about pen-based input, they said. We're still talking about a pocket-sized screen. We're still talking about syncing data with a desktop PC. So what's the big deal, they ask. What can these new mini-tablets do that our current PDAs can't?

And I answer that question with a question: If running a full desktop-grade OS like Windows Vista won't appreciably improve the mobile experience over what we have today with Garnet, why do people complain that Garnet isn't \"good enough?\" Why wish for an upgrade to Cobalt?

There's a difference between theory and practice. In theory, handhelds running Vista will be able to do things like image editing and software development that aren't generally doable on handhelds. But in practice, the smaller screen of a pocketable device makes such activities impractical. You can't see enough code or enough of the image on a 5 inch screen to work effectively.

In practice, Garnet does do what it needs to do for mobile devices. Palm already has the platform they need for the foreseeable future.
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User: Tibbarerew Site Admin
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:37 am
Jeff, I'm glad you're happy with OS 5. Stop acting like if you're happy everyone should be happy. It doesn't matter how many ways you say it, I'm still not excited about anywhere OS 5 is going. I want to see more. That's right WANT. Much like people WANT 4 gig LifeDrives. You don't need a 4 gig LifeDrive. Stop telling us it's good enough for us, when what you really mean is it's good enough for you.
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User: Jeff Kirvin Site Admin
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:40 am
You want more *what*? We have 4GB LifeDrives. What do you want to see that can reasonably be done in a handheld device that Garnet can't deliver?
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User: Tibbarerew Site Admin
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:51 am
I don't need to be told yet again how wrong I am and I don't think anyone else does either. We get it, you think we're morons. We're at an impass, and guess what, it's ok for us to want different things. You keep asking what I want and explaining either why I don't want it, or why I don't need it. We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've explained to you several times what I'm looking for and you've dismissed it, so why would I explain myself again?

Can we explore a different topic? Is this all there is to talk about?
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User: Anonymous Guest
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:18 pm
Well, Jeff, I must say that while I HOPE that you're right in your assertions, I am still a bit unconvinced. The scenario you describe makes some significant assumptions, none of which are necessarily assured.

First of all, it is possible that we will all be using Windows XP powered mini-tablets by 2008. If so, I'll be one of the first in line to own one of these. But its not necessarily a sure thing. Just because Microsoft writes the code for the OS, that doesn't necessarily assure that the hardware manufacturers are going to build them, and price them as you describe. If the current crop of mini-tablets that run Windows XP are priced close to $2000, how can you be so sure that prices will drop down into the $600 territory? Compact gadgets typically command a premium over their larger counterparts, so why would the computer manufacturers price them that low?

Another big assumption that you make is that the \"new and improved\" Palm corporation under Colligan will start producing PDA's that are stable, reasonably priced and as capable as their Pocket PC competitors, all while using the Garnet version of POS. Again, I will say that I certainly hope that this is the case, but this remains to be seen. The last few devices that Palm has made have all been pretty buggy on their initial release, (mainly the T5 and the Treo 650, but to a lesser extent the LD and the TE2.) Will the upcoming devices in the Fall, be good enough to help Palm gain back marketshare? We'll see.

And lastly, there is the oft-stated concern that with Palm's decreased marketshare and the continued reliance on Garnet, developers will start to put more of their energy into developing software for other platforms. Is this an imaginary issue? Or a real one? Well, there are at least a couple of major developers, (Opera and Skype,) that have stated that they are not interested in developing software for the Palm platform because of the difficulty in dealing with the multiple OS configurations that exist on different devices. Also, in my own personal experience, I have recently come across a couple of software programs, (one medical program, and a language translation prograom,) that I could purchase in a Pocket PC version, but not in a Palm OS version. Is this a trend, or merely an isolated occurance? Who knows? We'll see what happens over the next couple of years as Palm while Palm gets the linux version of the OS up and running.

In summary, Jeff, I hope that you are right about Palm's OS plans. I hope that Palm can indeed make Garnet work the way we all want it to, that software developers will continue to make sure that all of the best software is available for the Palm OS, and that reasonably priced mini-tablet PC's will become a reality in the next few years. But unlike you, I don't believe that we have the answers to these questions yet.

TMann
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User: Anonymous Guest
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:08 am
We all want more. I was hoping that Cobalt would be the answer for all my prayers and that I would have the ubbergeek device. Now those hopes are dashed. Garnet works okay for now, but I too want more. It is that with my current life situation and with the ROM update for the T5, I can live with it for now. But, I want the combo of WiFi with Bluetooth. I want the harddrive and I want the LifeDrive. It is a discussion that is going nowhere until we see what Palm is doing in the fall.

I agree that the T5 was a little buggy and they did fix it, as I said in a review I wrote earlier about the 5. Hey stop the beta tests on the general public.
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User: Anonymous Guest
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:08 am
As i mentioned in chat, People can use a micro tablet pc for for very specific tasks. If you've been reading my saga, I brought a T5 last week, found out that blazer on that T5 blows, and had the T5 lock up completely when transferring a large file to the flash memory.

So now I brought a Lifedrive, And i got a Stowaway keyboard (bluetooth).

At some point, I'll re-evaluate writing software for the palm, and it will be a specific application for film production. Probably designed to run on t5s and Lifedrives only due to all the crap I'll put in it, but it will be a complete solution.

When i say complete, it would be the main app on the device, as it use will be primarily for film production and that's it. It would cover all the tasks needed, and film people would not blink at spending the money for a t5 and the app if i get it to do what i want.

Right now (at this moment) , The palm can't do what i want it to do, Once i Install the keyboard, maybe i can do a bit more, Once a better browser comes out, even more.

If i write that app, It will fill a specific goal and I'll be happy for that task.

I would prefer a better OS re-written from scratch (and one that can be back loaded into the flash based palms). And remove all this backward compatability with old apps.

Who knows, for now, The Lifedrive will probebly be my expansive portable email station
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User: Anonymous Guest
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:15 am
[quote:d07c629ce0=\"Jeff Kirvin\"]In practice, Garnet does do what it needs to do for mobile devices. Palm already has the platform they need for the foreseeable future.

I want an equivalent to TextMaker on the Palm. I want to play with page layout, and not just text content, this means tables, columns, page orientation and all that good stuff. Basically, TextMaker.

I have to assume the OS is holding back developments like this. It can't be the market... (note: I've been a registered WordSmith user since prerelease Beta days, and can't believe that's still the best we have.)

The alternative (going back to PPC) is not an option for me, it just didn't *work* like a Palm does.

If a change in OS will drive further development, then yes, we need a new OS. Desperately.
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User: Jeff Kirvin Site Admin
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:17 am
[quote:a76d206e11=\"BoxOfSnoo\"]I want an equivalent to TextMaker on the Palm. I want to play with page layout, and not just text content, this means tables, columns, page orientation and all that good stuff. Basically, TextMaker.

http://tinyurl.com/annes

MobiSystems OfficeSuite 7 does as you ask. It's as close to the desktop Word as TextMaker, but without the bloated slowness.
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User: Anonymous Guest
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:47 pm
[quote:3ac0a653e0=\"Jeff Kirvin\"][quote:3ac0a653e0=\"BoxOfSnoo\"]I want an equivalent to TextMaker on the Palm. I want to play with page layout, and not just text content, this means tables, columns, page orientation and all that good stuff. Basically, TextMaker.

http://tinyurl.com/annes

MobiSystems OfficeSuite 7 does as you ask. It's as close to the desktop Word as TextMaker, but without the bloated slowness.

Uh, nope. I tried this before, and wondered if I missed something. I just downloaded and tried it out again, and there are STILL no columns, no paragraph borders, no headers & footers, and all that stuff. I know, you're going to hit your keyboard macro and insert \"You don't need all of that stuff\" but, guess what? I do.

I don't currently need things like footnotes, or mail merge, but knowing they're there makes me start to think of potential applications for it.

The reason TM has the \"bloated slowness\" is that you have features you have to pay for with CPU & RAM. Well, as Palms increase in CPU and RAM, there doesn't seem to be the programs that can use it. What else is unchanged that is holding back apps like this from being available on the Palm? Darnet, there has to be something! Wink

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User: Anonymous Guest
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:35 pm
I bought a Tungsten C based on 2 thing.

The specs... 400Mhz, 64MB, 320x320 screen, keyboard, wifi!

My experience with PocketPC's.

I figured that if Palm had all the hardware, how wrong could they go on an Internet enabled device?

BOY DID THEY GO WRONG!!!!!!

If I had ever used Palm OS before I would have run screaming from this device.

If all you need is and address and appointment book, you don't need a $600 PDA.

I've got Quake running on this thing now, so I know the hardware can handle everything I can do on my desktop machine. What's stopping me? An assinine opereating system that's less compatible with modern standards than by Mac Plus.

If Palm doesn't want to face the fact that FILES TYPES are the standard in todays world, then Palm needs to go.

Why can I not just copy files onto my Card and access them? PDF, HTML, DOC, RTF, TXT, GIF, JPG, BMP, TIFF!!!!

These are what the REAL world runs on, and what I need is a pocket computer that lets me navigate, edit and create THOSE file types.

Not some Conduit that converts thing to and from the weird language of Palm. With WiFi enabled there should be NOTHING I can't do with device.

With a 1GB SD Card, it's more powerful than my first PC. A P100 with a 1GB drive. I could do ALL that on my origninal machine. But Palm has to dictate in what application I can use my files.

I can't take a digital picture into my paint program because my program is limited to 320 x 320, and doesn't understand what a .JPG is.

Even my C=64 can handle a JPG now.

Your right about one thing... I don't want Cobalt. I WANT LINUX!!!!

If Palm doesn't care enough to give the user what they want, the least they could do is allow the OpenSource community to make an OS that will.

It's a damn shame to see a near perfect peice of Hardware go to waist because of stubborn bassackward corprate philosphy.
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User: Tibbarerew Site Admin
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:49 pm
This is a topic about improving the OS. It's clear you want nothing to do with Palm OS, you don't have anything positive to say about it. Please try to be constructive.
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User: Anonymous Guest
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:39 am
That was constructive. Not that any one will listen.

I need to handle my files. Not synced and linked alternative copies of my files. The real deal.

I need to be able to pull my SD card out, plug it into my SD readerDongle, and get at anything I've done on any machine I come in contact with.

I can't relay on being able to install special conduits and translations files on the road. I shouldn't have to even think about it.

It's needlessly complex at this point. There is no real savings of space on modern devices. 64MB of RAM is enough to run and store just about anything I need on the road.

It just PalmOS acting as wall between me and my data on the road. Instead of letting me get done what I need, I forced to deal with an archaic non-file system. It's like trying to get information off a Commodore 64. Except a C=64 is 21 years old and my T|C was designed to surf the net.

The Palm answer is \"You're trying to do too much with your Palm. You need a Laptop.\"

That's bull.

Palm needs to take a good look at who is buying handheld computers these day. The old PDA market is now the Cell phone market.

If they are going to keep making portable devices that are not cell phones, this is what they need to fix.

I shouldn't have to buy an OQO when my T|C has more than enough power under the hood to keep me happy.

And guess what... how long are those Cell phone guys going to stick around when they find out there was always an easier way, but some stubborn design philosphy got in the way.

I'm actually really scared for Palm reading this board. I've heard all this before.

\"We have programs that are almost as good.\"
\"Our comapany is still profitable.\"
\"Our name recognition is will carry us for a long time.\"

It was what Commodore was saying in 1992 right before they folded up and disappeared killing the Amiga forever.
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